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+Oct 16 15:06:10 *	prometheanfire bangs the virtual gavel, the meeting for the 16th of October 2016 is open
+Oct 16 15:06:24 <prometheanfire>	Roll call
+Oct 16 15:06:28 <dabbott>	here
+Oct 16 15:06:35 <antarus>	here
+Oct 16 15:07:17 <prometheanfire>	robbat2, SwifT?
+Oct 16 15:07:29 <dabbott>	SwifT: will not make it today, work stuff
+Oct 16 15:07:59 <prometheanfire>	k, robbat2?
+Oct 16 15:09:11 <prometheanfire>	gonna give one more minute then move on, still have a minimal quorum with just us
+Oct 16 15:09:13 <antarus>	text him?
+Oct 16 15:10:01 <prometheanfire>	don't have is number
+Oct 16 15:10:26 <antarus>	you should in your email
+Oct 16 15:10:27 <antarus>	I'll send him one
+Oct 16 15:10:31 <antarus>	but we can begin w/p
+Oct 16 15:10:33 <antarus>	er w/o
+Oct 16 15:11:23 <prometheanfire>	Old Business - Activity Tracker
+Oct 16 15:11:52 <prometheanfire>	there's been some updates just to bring it up to date, but no actions have been taken that I know of
+Oct 16 15:12:08 <antarus>	(sms sent)
+Oct 16 15:12:20 <prometheanfire>	IRS Status Report - will wait for robbat2 
+Oct 16 15:12:24 <antarus>	Can we put a link to the tracker in the /topic?
+Oct 16 15:12:31 <antarus>	I always forget where it is
+Oct 16 15:12:43 <antarus>	or is in the agenda
+Oct 16 15:12:54 <dabbott>	its in the agenda
+Oct 16 15:12:57 <antarus>	ahh it is, excellent
+Oct 16 15:12:59 <prometheanfire>	:D
+Oct 16 15:13:04 <antarus>	thanks dabbott ;)
+Oct 16 15:13:23 <dabbott>	you are welcome :)
+Oct 16 15:13:30 <prometheanfire>	while we wait we can discuss the presidency or move to induct new members
+Oct 16 15:13:39 <prometheanfire>	might be better to do the later first while we wait
+Oct 16 15:13:55 <dabbott>	I don't see anything major in the tracker
+Oct 16 15:13:56 <antarus>	the latter seems the best course of action
+Oct 16 15:14:34 <prometheanfire>	Membership Applications - Mauricio Lima Pilla (pilla)
+Oct 16 15:14:39 <prometheanfire>	Aye
+Oct 16 15:14:49 <dabbott>	yes
+Oct 16 15:15:36 <antarus>	aye
+Oct 16 15:16:10 <prometheanfire>	carried with min of 3
+Oct 16 15:16:19 <dabbott>	I will send the email and update the members list
+Oct 16 15:16:28 <prometheanfire>	thanks
+Oct 16 15:17:34 <prometheanfire>	only update that I've noticed with swift's stuff (privacy policy and artwork) is a small review of the artwork that's been done
+Oct 16 15:18:00 <prometheanfire>	moving on from that, my stuff
+Oct 16 15:18:13 <prometheanfire>	prometheanfire - D&O insurance Bug 592198
+Oct 16 15:18:15 <willikins>	https://bugs.gentoo.org/592198 "D&O insurance"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; prometheanfire:trustees
+Oct 16 15:18:58 <prometheanfire>	It took a while but I found the provider used by the PSF, I have not asked for info / quotes yet though but will by the next meeting
+Oct 16 15:20:53 <antarus>	ok, my general opinion is we should get some pending price and terms
+Oct 16 15:21:00 <antarus>	so no action required until we get price and terms? :)
+Oct 16 15:21:05 <prometheanfire>	correct
+Oct 16 15:21:15 <antarus>	sgtm
+Oct 16 15:21:25 <prometheanfire>	it was my intention to get a quote / terms and vote on it in the next meeting
+Oct 16 15:21:39 <antarus>	seems reasonable
+Oct 16 15:21:44 <dabbott>	I can go either way for $500 I would say ok if the others want it, if it gets costly, no
+Oct 16 15:22:05 <prometheanfire>	dabbott: I think I feel about the same
+Oct 16 15:22:11 <dabbott>	thanks for the research prometheanfire 
+Oct 16 15:22:25 <prometheanfire>	ya, it's slow going, totally new area for me
+Oct 16 15:22:42 <prometheanfire>	next?
+Oct 16 15:23:02 *	prometheanfire prepares to open the floodgates
+Oct 16 15:23:05 <antarus>	swift is not here, robin is not here, you want to talk about metastructure or president?: )
+Oct 16 15:23:14 <prometheanfire>	meta first
+Oct 16 15:23:44 <prometheanfire>	president I hope to be simpler, but as we are only discussing metastructure I think it's better to do that now then make a decision now
+Oct 16 15:23:57 <prometheanfire>	prometheanfire -      Robbat2's email (moving comrel, infra and pr under foundation)
+Oct 16 15:24:15 <prometheanfire>	I don't think we should talk about moving projects immediately
+Oct 16 15:24:23 <prometheanfire>	rich0: ping
+Oct 16 15:24:42 <dabbott>	we have a hard time getting people involved with a simple set-up more complex, who is going to oversee it, I like less structure not more imho
+Oct 16 15:24:50 <antarus>	I'm trying to understand approximately what this proposal is trying to accomplish
+Oct 16 15:25:24 <antarus>	for reference: https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/d679e40f31dc2341b534834540d504b1
+Oct 16 15:26:14 <antarus>	dabbott: I think its tricky because the existing groups have annoying rules for joining already
+Oct 16 15:26:18 <antarus>	but they are just poorly documented
+Oct 16 15:26:26 <antarus>	infra for example, has always had "weird" rules
+Oct 16 15:26:33 <prometheanfire>	I think that changing gentoo to a single voting body would be good, for simplicity.  the complexity and drama introduced by people no liking the idea of the foundation controlling gentoo would be reduced
+Oct 16 15:26:42 <antarus>	and mostly involves the infra lead  having met you and vetting you personally
+Oct 16 15:26:45 <antarus>	which is not super great
+Oct 16 15:26:53 <prometheanfire>	it'd allow us to move more swiftly to make change if we wanted
+Oct 16 15:27:50 <antarus>	so I think I want to tackle that separately
+Oct 16 15:27:58 <prometheanfire>	the main issue I see with the proposal as it stands is forced membership in the foundation (perhaps a default true thing could be used instead)
+Oct 16 15:28:08 <prometheanfire>	antarus: tackle the membership docs/issues?
+Oct 16 15:28:09 <antarus>	I generally agree that the means we use to control foundation membership is poor
+Oct 16 15:28:35 <antarus>	1) people never leave teh foundation 2) some people never join because they find no value in it
+Oct 16 15:28:55 <prometheanfire>	I personally think foundation membership should need two things, 'contribute to gentoo' and 'agree to the coc'
+Oct 16 15:28:55 <antarus>	(plus a bunch of other reasons, but its less clear we can combat those with simple membership controls)
+Oct 16 15:29:31 <prometheanfire>	1 is fixed by tying foundation membership to staff membership
+Oct 16 15:29:35 <antarus>	I think we could easily pass some bylaws to fix 1 (and some were sent out already)
+Oct 16 15:29:57 <prometheanfire>	if staff is retired then foundation membership is revoked
+Oct 16 15:30:02 <antarus>	2 is less clear
+Oct 16 15:30:11 <prometheanfire>	as far as people not finding value, ya, that's hard
+Oct 16 15:30:15 <antarus>	I don't necessarily want to force people to join the foundation
+Oct 16 15:30:25 <antarus>	although it may be necessary for some positions; I'm somewhat open to that idea
+Oct 16 15:30:34 <antarus>	(I feel like there is some balance)
+Oct 16 15:30:54 <prometheanfire>	I personally think default to joining is fine, with an opt-out
+Oct 16 15:30:55 <antarus>	I need more informatoin, specifically from conscienscous objectors who for some reason do not wish to join the foundation ever
+Oct 16 15:31:09 <prometheanfire>	no opt-out is hard because members are forced to vote
+Oct 16 15:31:12 <antarus>	and so if we forbade them from ever being in say..comrel...
+Oct 16 15:31:17 <antarus>	what would that do to the project
+Oct 16 15:32:38 <prometheanfire>	ya, I think the discussion should continue, hopefully by next meeting we'll have something actionable
+Oct 16 15:32:52 <prometheanfire>	I just wanted to bring it up as something to be noticed
+Oct 16 15:32:55 <antarus>	I think the data typically shows that fewer people opt-anything
+Oct 16 15:33:01 <antarus>	so opt-in would garner more membership
+Oct 16 15:33:07 <antarus>	er out* sorry
+Oct 16 15:33:11 <prometheanfire>	right
+Oct 16 15:33:29 <antarus>	I think the question i pose is whether we want inactive members
+Oct 16 15:33:32 <dabbott>	I would like to see how other distros do it, we may not need to reenvent just copy
+Oct 16 15:33:34 <prometheanfire>	the suggestion I like most was 'opt-out with auto opt-out when missing N-votes'
+Oct 16 15:33:56 <antarus>	if people 'forget' to opt-out, but never contribute to foundation business
+Oct 16 15:34:02 <antarus>	do we actually want them as members?
+Oct 16 15:34:06 *	ChanServ gives voice to Bircoph
+Oct 16 15:34:14 <prometheanfire>	I have a friend close with fedora I may be able to ask
+Oct 16 15:34:18 <antarus>	to me this comes back to the membership being useful in some way
+Oct 16 15:34:28 <prometheanfire>	antarus: well, like I said, 'opt-out with auto opt-out when missing N-votes'
+Oct 16 15:34:29 <antarus>	which is an argument for moving more stuff under the foundation
+Oct 16 15:34:40 <antarus>	prometheanfire: yeah I don't understand what that means
+Oct 16 15:34:43 <antarus>	like during voting...?
+Oct 16 15:34:45 <prometheanfire>	true, that's an eventual goal
+Oct 16 15:35:01 <antarus>	or you mean they automatically lose membership after missing votes?
+Oct 16 15:35:03 <prometheanfire>	auto opt-out if you miss an election
+Oct 16 15:35:06 <antarus>	ahh
+Oct 16 15:35:11 <prometheanfire>	or two
+Oct 16 15:35:18 <antarus>	I thought there was some skepticism that that method was effective
+Oct 16 15:35:19 <prometheanfire>	as the current rules state
+Oct 16 15:35:33 <prometheanfire>	it's better than nothing :|
+Oct 16 15:35:34 <prometheanfire>	also
+Oct 16 15:35:50 <antarus>	I will perhaps collect some stats
+Oct 16 15:35:53 <antarus>	on foundation membership vs staff
+Oct 16 15:35:54 <prometheanfire>	tying it to staff would make retirement from staff mean you loose membership
+Oct 16 15:36:01 <antarus>	if they leave gentoo, and that makes them leave the foundation
+Oct 16 15:36:11 <antarus>	that may be sufficient to keep rolls reflective of active members
+Oct 16 15:36:12 <prometheanfire>	staff is an underused position within gentoo atm
+Oct 16 15:36:29 <antarus>	AI(antarus) to run some numbers
+Oct 16 15:36:32 <prometheanfire>	at least from what I've seen
+Oct 16 15:36:46 <prometheanfire>	antarus: want me to say that?
+Oct 16 15:36:56 <antarus>	?
+Oct 16 15:37:05 <prometheanfire>	Action Item, antarus - run some numbers
+Oct 16 15:37:06 <antarus>	I am perfectly comfortable making AIs for myself, haha
+Oct 16 15:37:09 <prometheanfire>	:P
+Oct 16 15:37:18 <antarus>	I will run 1 mile in 10 minutes
+Oct 16 15:37:31 <prometheanfire>	ok, I'll let that sit for now, next?
+Oct 16 15:37:46 <antarus>	dabbott: any other comments specifically on managing foundation rolls?
+Oct 16 15:37:56 <dabbott>	no
+Oct 16 15:38:08 <prometheanfire>	k, next
+Oct 16 15:38:21 <prometheanfire>	Elect President
+Oct 16 15:38:34 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: around? you sent the email so may have a canidate list
+Oct 16 15:38:44 <prometheanfire>	I don't remember seeing anyone step forward
+Oct 16 15:38:44 <antarus>	candidates were supposed to email trustees@
+Oct 16 15:38:49 <prometheanfire>	ya
+Oct 16 15:38:49 <antarus>	and afaik I saw 0 entries
+Oct 16 15:38:52 <antarus>	minus your IRC entry ;)
+Oct 16 15:38:58 <dabbott>	I did not see any reply's 
+Oct 16 15:39:08 <prometheanfire>	ya, I only volunteered as a backup
+Oct 16 15:39:28 <antarus>	bathroom, brb
+Oct 16 15:39:36 <prometheanfire>	k
+Oct 16 15:39:39 <prometheanfire>	5 min break
+Oct 16 15:41:28 <NeddySeagoon>	alicef may come forward.
+Oct 16 15:42:35 <dabbott>	We just have a hard time getting people interested in the foundation, thats why it was researched to turn it over to a co-op but we did not want to lose control of the money etc
+Oct 16 15:42:37 <NeddySeagoon>	Other than that, I've had a few messages from well wishers in response to President Wanated 
+Oct 16 15:42:49 *	antarus is back
+Oct 16 15:43:07 <prometheanfire>	!time alicef 
+Oct 16 15:43:07 <willikins>	prometheanfire: Asia - Tokyo - Mon Oct 17 04:43 JST
+Oct 16 15:43:16 <prometheanfire>	bad time to ask
+Oct 16 15:43:38 <NeddySeagoon>	I've had a few /query sessions
+Oct 16 15:45:02 <prometheanfire>	I'd personally rather not go antoher month without a president, but it may not hurt...
+Oct 16 15:46:48 *	ChanServ gives voice to K_F
+Oct 16 15:46:52 <prometheanfire>	anyone have any strong opinions?
+Oct 16 15:47:40 <dabbott>	We need someone accountable, I would even pay the right person
+Oct 16 15:47:44 <antarus>	what do we expect to change
+Oct 16 15:47:48 <antarus>	between now and next month
+Oct 16 15:48:22 <prometheanfire>	antarus: nothing really?
+Oct 16 15:48:25 <prometheanfire>	dabbott: accountable for what?
+Oct 16 15:49:10 <dabbott>	To drive the foundation forward
+Oct 16 15:49:27 <prometheanfire>	fair enough
+Oct 16 15:49:28 <antarus>	The president is basically CEO-esque
+Oct 16 15:49:35 <antarus>	so he has an agenda, stuff he wants done, etc
+Oct 16 15:49:35 <dabbott>	get stuff done anser to the board
+Oct 16 15:49:55 <antarus>	we generally haven't had much of that
+Oct 16 15:50:06 <prometheanfire>	which may be part of the problem :P
+Oct 16 15:50:09 <antarus>	sure
+Oct 16 15:50:10 <prometheanfire>	or not
+Oct 16 15:50:21 <antarus>	(this isn't an attack on the previous president or anything)
+Oct 16 15:50:25 <dabbott>	we all have real live stuff that takes our time and energy
+Oct 16 15:50:29 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: <3
+Oct 16 15:50:30 <antarus>	we appreciate your service NeddySeagoon ;)
+Oct 16 15:50:48 <antarus>	I also think Gentoo is not necessarily...receptive to such things
+Oct 16 15:50:59 <prometheanfire>	well, the president could switch next month right?
+Oct 16 15:50:59 <antarus>	because the foundatoin has very little direct power in the current metastructure
+Oct 16 15:51:05 <prometheanfire>	would an interim president work?
+Oct 16 15:51:15 <antarus>	and so it would be interesting to see how someone would drive anything from here
+Oct 16 15:51:21 <NeddySeagoon>	There is actully little to do other than get our position straight federally and with thu IRS.  We have no say in the distro but we take the blame
+Oct 16 15:51:53 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: first part is in progress, second part may be in progress too :P
+Oct 16 15:52:05 <NeddySeagoon>	prometheanfire: Yep, I'm aware
+Oct 16 15:52:33 <NeddySeagoon>	Nobody driven the IRS :)
+Oct 16 15:52:39 <NeddySeagoon>	drives*
+Oct 16 15:52:39 <antarus>	well let me put it this way
+Oct 16 15:52:47 <antarus>	are we willing ot vote on a president with 3 votes?
+Oct 16 15:52:50 <antarus>	or shall we defer?
+Oct 16 15:52:59 <NeddySeagoon>	I suggest defer
+Oct 16 15:53:01 <dabbott>	lets wait
+Oct 16 15:53:03 <prometheanfire>	ya, defer
+Oct 16 15:53:08 <antarus>	agreed
+Oct 16 15:53:25 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: get the canidates to email trustees@ with their 'manifesto'
+Oct 16 15:53:32 <prometheanfire>	I'll do the same
+Oct 16 15:53:46 <prometheanfire>	no other business?
+Oct 16 15:54:12 <NeddySeagoon>	I'm not intending to be doing other things until after Christmas.  Tonight was just an unplanned late dinner.  Sorry for the short notice
+Oct 16 15:54:27 <antarus>	did we do bugs?
+Oct 16 15:54:37 <antarus>	I feel like we have a lot of them open ;p
+Oct 16 15:54:37 <dabbott>	no
+Oct 16 15:54:43 <prometheanfire>	no, sorry
+Oct 16 15:54:54 <prometheanfire>	open bugs
+Oct 16 15:54:58 <prometheanfire>	https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=IN_PROGRESS&bug_status=VERIFIED&email2=trustees&emailassigned_to2=1&emailcc2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailtype2=substring&known_name=TrusteesOpenBugs&list_id=3290194&order=Last%20Changed&query_based_on=TrusteesOpenBugs&query_format=advanced&resolution=---
+Oct 16 15:55:03 <prometheanfire>	quite the link
+Oct 16 15:55:15 <NeddySeagoon>	a lot of bugs look like thef need an off line review and just closed
+Oct 16 15:55:15 <antarus>	Can we close bug 543768
+Oct 16 15:55:18 <willikins>	antarus: https://bugs.gentoo.org/543768 "Joining the NTF foundation"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; dabbott:trustees
+Oct 16 15:55:20 <antarus>	or do we need a vote?
+Oct 16 15:55:33 <NeddySeagoon>	WE voteh to toh join
+Oct 16 15:55:37 <NeddySeagoon>	not*
+Oct 16 15:55:40 <prometheanfire>	I say nay
+Oct 16 15:55:40 <dabbott>	close it I say
+Oct 16 15:55:41 <prometheanfire>	close
+Oct 16 15:55:46 <NeddySeagoon>	 They wanted an NDA
+Oct 16 15:55:49 <prometheanfire>	that's quorum :P
+Oct 16 15:55:57 <antarus>	aye close
+Oct 16 15:56:02 <prometheanfire>	ok, closing
+Oct 16 15:56:04 <antarus>	I need to find my bugzilla password ;)
+Oct 16 15:56:13 <dabbott>	bug 591704
+Oct 16 15:56:15 <willikins>	dabbott: https://bugs.gentoo.org/591704 "commemorate Jon Portnoy (avenj)"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; jer:trustees
+Oct 16 15:56:27 <dabbott>	we can close that also
+Oct 16 15:56:31 <prometheanfire>	dabbott: I think that's completed as well
+Oct 16 15:56:45 <NeddySeagoon>	Complete.  We got a thank you that should go on the bug
+Oct 16 15:56:57 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: mind adding that real quick?
+Oct 16 15:57:10 <antarus>	https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473214
+Oct 16 15:57:19 <antarus>	once we get mail forwarding they might be able to handle that?
+Oct 16 15:57:25 <prometheanfire>	bug 473214
+Oct 16 15:57:28 <willikins>	prometheanfire: https://bugs.gentoo.org/473214 "Non-paypal contribution method"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; rich0:trustees
+Oct 16 15:57:31 <NeddySeagoon>	I need to find it.  its is emails to trustees@
+Oct 16 15:57:41 <prometheanfire>	antarus: robbat2 is handling that atm
+Oct 16 15:58:05 <dabbott>	I closed bug 591704
+Oct 16 15:58:05 <willikins>	dabbott: https://bugs.gentoo.org/591704 "commemorate Jon Portnoy (avenj)"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; jer:trustees
+Oct 16 15:58:11 <prometheanfire>	k
+Oct 16 15:58:30 <antarus>	did we do 536668
+Oct 16 15:58:32 <antarus>	in 2015?
+Oct 16 15:58:34 <antarus>	bug 536668
+Oct 16 15:58:36 <willikins>	antarus: https://bugs.gentoo.org/536668 "Grammar bug leads to wrong interpretation of social contract"; Websites, Other; CONF; dberkholz:trustees
+Oct 16 15:58:41 <prometheanfire>	dabbott: I don't see it closed
+Oct 16 15:59:00 <dabbott>	sorry wrong bug, I closed bug 591836 
+Oct 16 15:59:03 <willikins>	https://bugs.gentoo.org/591836 "NM Annual Filing Fee"; Gentoo Foundation, Filings; RESO, FIXE; dabbott:trustees
+Oct 16 15:59:09 <prometheanfire>	ah, k
+Oct 16 16:00:48 <dabbott>	I think thats all we can do today
+Oct 16 16:00:52 <antarus>	agreed
+Oct 16 16:01:01 <prometheanfire>	ya
+Oct 16 16:01:06 <prometheanfire>	running over now
+Oct 16 16:01:07 <NeddySeagoon>	prometheanfire: I can't find the 'thank you' right now
+Oct 16 16:01:26 <prometheanfire>	NeddySeagoon: np, the bug is still open
+Oct 16 16:01:38 <prometheanfire>	ok, til next month then...
+Oct 16 16:01:50 <NeddySeagoon>	20 Nov
+Oct 16 16:01:50 <prometheanfire>	do we want to get a time for the dec meeting?
+Oct 16 16:02:01 <NeddySeagoon>	Its alwayn 19:00 UTC
+Oct 16 16:02:04 <antarus>	let me check my dates
+Oct 16 16:02:10 *	prometheanfire means date
+Oct 16 16:02:21 <NeddySeagoon>	Its the 3rd Sun
+Oct 16 16:02:26 <antarus>	ok I am around on nov 20
+Oct 16 16:02:40 <NeddySeagoon>	Me too
+Oct 16 16:02:40 <prometheanfire>	17 dec 2016 is fine with me
+Oct 16 16:02:45 <prometheanfire>	bah
+Oct 16 16:02:46 <prometheanfire>	18
+Oct 16 16:02:49 <antarus>	oh we need to decide dec?
+Oct 16 16:02:58 <antarus>	I think I am around until dec 21
+Oct 16 16:02:58 <dabbott>	prometheanfire: next meeting in Nov
+Oct 16 16:03:01 <prometheanfire>	just to put as a note for the next meeting
+Oct 16 16:03:13 <NeddySeagoon>	18 Dec works for me too
+Oct 16 16:03:18 <antarus>	so lgtm without checking my calendar :)
+Oct 16 16:03:23 <prometheanfire>	yes, the next meeting is 20 nov, after that is 18 dec
+Oct 16 16:03:28 <prometheanfire>	k
+Oct 16 16:03:31 <NeddySeagoon>	yep
+Oct 16 16:03:34 <prometheanfire>	any other business?
+Oct 16 16:03:34 <dabbott>	both fine here
+Oct 16 16:03:49 <NeddySeagoon>	One thing from me ...
+Oct 16 16:05:11 <NeddySeagoon>	We had received a joint email to trustees and council.  It should be acknowleged, probably by council, or it looks like its being ignored.   It was on a council topic 
+Oct 16 16:05:50 <antarus>	is this the email from Ian, or Rich?
+Oct 16 16:05:58 <NeddySeagoon>	Neither
+Oct 16 16:06:55 <prometheanfire>	talking about the joint work?
+Oct 16 16:07:06 <antarus>	I am confused as to which email you are referring then ;p
+Oct 16 16:07:50 <NeddySeagoon>	skip it ... I can't find it right now
+Oct 16 16:08:23 <prometheanfire>	ok, til next time then
+Oct 16 16:08:40 *	prometheanfire bangs the virtual gavel to close this meeting